Bt Builder

Discussions and help for the Bard's Tale Construction Set
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

Just downloaded the new version. We still have that issue with the screen going black if you go fullscreen, when you start the game. I've checked it and if you load BTBuilder and THEN go fullscreen, it's fine. If you edit a module or load a game, I get a black screen. I'm wondering if it could be the shitty integrated Intel chipset. I'll set it to use my Invidia and see if that resolves the issue.


Also, I realized I have several new images I never sent to you, mostly female druids and what not. I remember Caars saying something about needing them, back when he asked for a Silver/Grey dragon. I'll email them to you, sometime next week.
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
caars
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by caars »

Okay, the first trial of the random dungeon generator seems to be working just fine, so I've created a published version and zipped it up in my shared folder (that link in my signature).

A few notes (at least as far as what it's doing when I run it):

Once it installs, it *says* it should produce a desktop shortcut, but I have yet to see that actually happen. It did show up in my start menu though, and I know for sure if you click on the application file in whatever folder you extract it to, it runs.

Once you open it, you tell it to load up an .xml file for a bt builder dungeon. It should load it, along with all of its specials (and a map of the dungeon will appear as well). The long text box in the center doesn't really do anything (it is really there more for testing purposes - I rig it to display things I want to see to make sure things are running right). Technically you can use it to cycle through lines of the xml file, but you can't really do anything to them (changing them in the text window won't have an effect).

Whatever name you put in the text box next to Save (where "newdungeon" is) is what it will call the output (it will add .xml on its own). In that respect you can actually use it as a very quick way to "clone" dungeon maps, giving them different names (not that you couldn't easily do that any way).

The parameters:

Room Weight: How often it produces rooms.
Room Size: Each side of a room will be anywhere from 1 up to this size. There is a 15% chance that the code will triple the rolled size of the room, and a 3% chance it will make it eight times larger (this is to create the occasional very large room even if the dungeon mostly has small rooms). I do plan to add an option to disable this in the future.
Corridor Weight: How often it produces corridors (which are basically "rooms" with one of the two dimensions set to be 1).
Corridor Length: The corridor will be anything from 1 to this length.
Exits: The higher you set this, the more exits each room and corridor will likely have (think of it as an "exit weight").
Fill Percent: What percentage of the map to fill with rooms and corridors. Note that the program is hard coded to stop after an excessive number of iterations even if it hasn't reached the fill percent yet ... not really an issue for "random" generation, but "exitstep" or "buildstep" can sometimes with the builder just trying to "overdraw" one little part of the dungeon over and over again and never actually making progress.

Dungeon Seed: The seed fed into the RNG. It is itself selected randomly if you don't put anything here, otherwise it will use whatever number you put here (same seed + same "method" should give you the same dungeon every time). I haven't tried to see what happens if you put something bad in here (like a word), but it probably crashes the program.

Build Method:
Random: Builds a room or corridor. Moves to a completely random part of the dungeon. Builds another room or corridor. Repeat.
Exitstep: Builds a room or corridor. All rooms or corridors generate a "main exit" (usually a door, but sometimes an open wall) somewhere along the wall (this is true even in random). "Exitstep" starts the next room or corridor at wherever the main exit was from the previous room or corridor. Note that it does *not* attempt to automatically build the room or corridor in a direction that "makes sense" - it might decide to send a corridor right back into the room it just built, for example.
Buildstep: Builds a room or corridor. If it built a room, then the next room or corridor *starts* one diagonal step away from where the last one did. If it built a corridor, the next one starts one diagonal step away from where the last one *ended.* The builder will prefer to move north and east, but whenever it encounters the edge of the dungeon, it will want to reverse the appropriate direction (i.e. hitting the north side makes it switch to wanting to move south, etc.).

"Random" tends to work best overall; crates pretty standard, generic dungeons. Exitstep tends to produce a lot of variation - use that if you really want some odd designs, but realize you may have to click "generate" a bunch of times to get something reasonable. Buildstep tends to make the central diagonal (sw to ne) really "busy" with large regions to the se and nw very "empty."

Other notes:
Once a room or corridor is built, it cannot be overwritten, so if a new room or corridor tries to "overwrite" one that has already been added, it won't destroy the old one; instead *only* the portion of the new room or corridor that doesn't impinge on the old one will get drawn in. Doors are an exception - if the code flags a location for a "main exit" it will draw the exit, even if it is in part of a room or corridor that couldn't overwrite an old room or corridor.

The code does try to make sure the dungeon is navigable - it tries to make sure from any location in the dungeon there is a path to any other location. It doesn't try very hard (to keep things running fast), so if you get parts of the dungeon that can't be reached from the entry stairs, that CAN happen. However, it doesn't seem to happen very often (at least while I've been playing with it).

By the way, when I talk about old rooms not getting overwritten by new ones, I literally means during a given press of the "generate" button. Each time you press the "generate" button it *will* erase all doors, walls, and placed specials that were previously there in favor of a whole new dungeon (it's like the Genesis device in ST2: WoK). It *does* save the actual special lists, though - so whatever specials you had programmed for placement in the "parent" dungeon will also be in all "child" dungeons this thing generates.

As always, comments and requests are welcome. In particular, if you have an idea for a "method" of generation you want me to add, give me a description, and I'll try to program it in. Keep in mind that the code draws dungeons one room/corridor at a time, and doesn't really remember what it has already drawn (so much as it just "flags" squares that are already drawn as "untouchable"), so suggestions that give a "neutral" algorithm as to where to start the next room are most doable - things like "have it draw ten rooms, and then connect them with corridors" would be much harder to do (i'd have to give the "builder" a memory to do that).
Modules for BT Builder (still very much works in progress):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwpB_ ... DMyOUQzVDg



Happy Birthday! :mrgreen:



Okay, no, it's not BTBuilder's birthday, but mine was yesterday. I blew my deadline, though, so it's getting posted now. Here's a new BTBuilder Art Pack.

What it does:

It adds 120+ new images for the game. Some of these are re-renders of old images, using Iray (I've learned a lot about materials.)

Adds a complete set of images for slots 0-44, so no more blank images for default BTCS games.

Adds a complete set of images for all the default professions for both male and female characters.

Only two images are animated (better Slime animation and the Shadow.)


Just unarchive and drop in your BTBuilder directory. Hope you guys enjoy it.


BTW, Caars, that dungeon randomizer is awesome. It's what inspired me to crank out these images.


Dulsi, if you can find the time and the drive, I really would like multiple attacks for monsters.
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
caars
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by caars »

I'm loving the new images! It looks like I've got some work to do ... I've been using my random generator to help create a module, and it's currently got about 13 dungeon levels (this particular little creation uses the BT1 and 2 standard of 22 by 22 for a dungeon level), with about the first half of the levels each having their own set of monsters (about 16 each), and then the second half "sharing" monsters in sets of two (so each level "chooses" between 16 monsters, but the 16 are shared between two levels instead of just one - with the first of the two having a slight preference toward encountering the weaker 8 monsters in the "set" and the second of the two with a slight preference toward the strong 8 in the "set"). That's all to say that some of the monsters will end up automatically using the new portraits (i.e. like the bugbear was actually using that old "extra" bugbear portrait from before Methuselahs started doing his re-renders, so that old portrait automatically got replaced by the new one). Generally, if one of Methuselahs portraits was reasonably close to what I figured the monster should look like, I used it, otherwise I just used the older one (e.g. the bugbear used the old art since none of the newer renders had anything "bugbear" like - and so the new bugbear automatically replaced the old; but I was actually using the goblin as a stand in for the kobold - and so that one I'll have to manually go in and change since there's actually a "new" kobold).

That's a really, really long way of saying that it looks like I'm going to have to go through my whole monster list to make sure if there is now a new portrait specific to that monster, that it actually uses that portrait - that's a good thing! :)

One critique - on my machine the pictures for the Guild and the Tavern are *really* dark (as in I can barely see anything at all). I don't know if that's on my end, or if you're seeing that too...

A few other notes: one whole "class" of classic monster that is definitely missing (that I wouldn't have noticed until I made the monster and realized there wasn't a portrait for it) are lycanthropes. Okay, okay ... actually some of the beastmen do for the more exotic types in a pinch (and the tigerman could also serve as a rakshasa in a pinch), but two classics that I definitely noticed the absence for were the wererat and the werewolf (I'm actually using the normal rat and wolf for those right now).

Love the new selection of undersea monsters (although I haven't really used underwater much in anything yet) - the only random criticism I've got is IMHO, the stippling pattern on the seafloor is giving me a definite impression of "smallness." For most of the undersea portraits that isn't a problem at all (they don't "look" smaller to me than what I'd expect), but I have to admit that the dragon turtle in particular actually literally made me think it was the size of a pet turtle. It really stood out compared to another undersea "dragon" type (I forget what it was called) that doesn't have a seafloor in the background which meant that I could imagine it as pretty big.

Liked the old vampire, but *really* like the new version! For that matter I'm liking the addition all of these new undead (which, ironically, is making me miss having a "new" mummy and lich).

Of course, honestly, kudoes on *all* the new stuff. There isn't really anything I'm not liking!

On my current "to do" list is to add an option to the random dungeon generator that creates a "city" (i.e. has a tendency to arrange things in a streets and 1x1 buildings pattern), along with more classic "mazes" (setting room weight to very low doesn't really look "labyrinth" like, IMO) and perhaps a "D&D" style (right now it really likes to create stuff that looks more "classic bard's tale" - which is by design - but I'd like to give it the ability to generate something that looks more like the pattern of hallways and rooms you'd draw if you were making a dungeon for pen and paper D&D, if that makes sense).

Well, enough rambling from me!
Modules for BT Builder (still very much works in progress):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

caars wrote:I'm loving the new images! It looks like I've got some work to do ... I've been using my random generator to help create a module, and it's currently got about 13 dungeon levels (this particular little creation uses the BT1 and 2 standard of 22 by 22 for a dungeon level), with about the first half of the levels each having their own set of monsters (about 16 each), and then the second half "sharing" monsters in sets of two (so each level "chooses" between 16 monsters, but the 16 are shared between two levels instead of just one - with the first of the two having a slight preference toward encountering the weaker 8 monsters in the "set" and the second of the two with a slight preference toward the strong 8 in the "set"). That's all to say that some of the monsters will end up automatically using the new portraits (i.e. like the bugbear was actually using that old "extra" bugbear portrait from before Methuselahs started doing his re-renders, so that old portrait automatically got replaced by the new one). Generally, if one of Methuselahs portraits was reasonably close to what I figured the monster should look like, I used it, otherwise I just used the older one (e.g. the bugbear used the old art since none of the newer renders had anything "bugbear" like - and so the new bugbear automatically replaced the old; but I was actually using the goblin as a stand in for the kobold - and so that one I'll have to manually go in and change since there's actually a "new" kobold).


That's a really, really long way of saying that it looks like I'm going to have to go through my whole monster list to make sure if there is now a new portrait specific to that monster, that it actually uses that portrait - that's a good thing! :)
Yeah, the Bugbear requires hair, something I haven't gotten to just yet. It's why you're not also seeing gnolls.......yet. I'm still learning the in's and out's of Look at My Har (Daz Studio's hair rendering engine.) Pre-made hair sets look great. Mine, not so much. Working on it.

Some of these models have morphs I sculpt out in ZBrush. The Kobold being the primary example. I couldn't find what I was looking for, so I got it as close as I could, exported an obj, threw it in ZBrush and then sculpted away, until I got what I was looking for. When I finished it, I just imported it as a morph and voila.
One critique - on my machine the pictures for the Guild and the Tavern are *really* dark (as in I can barely see anything at all). I don't know if that's on my end, or if you're seeing that too...
Yeah, this is an issue with physical-based light rendering. I'm still not used to lighting in Iray. It's different than what I'm used to with Mental Ray and (unfortunately now) Arnold in Maya. The light you're seeing, is from physical emitters. So, the light is actually coming from the candles and fire pits, themselves. In other words, it's realistic lighting. That's why it looks so dark. I was going for lighting, like you would see in Game of Thrones, old fantasy films, etc. The Tavern Maid was actually rendered in the bar, but the lighting was so poor, due to locations of the realistic lighting emitters. I actually had to throw a spot light on her, just to make her visible.
A few other notes: one whole "class" of classic monster that is definitely missing (that I wouldn't have noticed until I made the monster and realized there wasn't a portrait for it) are lycanthropes. Okay, okay ... actually some of the beastmen do for the more exotic types in a pinch (and the tigerman could also serve as a rakshasa in a pinch), but two classics that I definitely noticed the absence for were the wererat and the werewolf (I'm actually using the normal rat and wolf for those right now).
Rakshasa is on it's way. No, really. As for Beastmen, ironically, I just rendered the Beastman and Beastman Shaman this evening. I do have a model for a wererat, werewolf and werebear, but only the werebear has LAMH follicles. I do have a "rat-man" model, that does have LAMH follicles, but it's HORRIBLE compared to the other wererat model I have. I'll make those a priority. They just don't look good, without the hair. There's only so much you can do with textures, when trying to re-create hair. The rat image itself, is a good example just how poor textures are, when it comes to flat models trying to emulate hair and fur.
Love the new selection of undersea monsters (although I haven't really used underwater much in anything yet) - the only random criticism I've got is IMHO, the stippling pattern on the seafloor is giving me a definite impression of "smallness." For most of the undersea portraits that isn't a problem at all (they don't "look" smaller to me than what I'd expect), but I have to admit that the dragon turtle in particular actually literally made me think it was the size of a pet turtle. It really stood out compared to another undersea "dragon" type (I forget what it was called) that doesn't have a seafloor in the background which meant that I could imagine it as pretty big.
I went a little purchase happy about a month and a half ago, buying some new Daz content, which is where the underwater scene came from. It started as a purchase, as I've run into problems now, with Maya. I mistakenly updated to the subscription based version of Maya and Autodesk, in their infinite wisdom, scrapped Mental Ray (now owned by Invida and soon to become Maya's version of IRay) in favor of Arnold, but in order to USE Arnold, you have to have a license. -_- I'm debating trying to export my Maya scenes and bring them into Daz Studio, to render in Iray.

The Sea Dragon was my first render. I added the ground to the rest of them, as I planned on surprising you guys with an underwater dungeon and that UltraMarine scene from Daz was going to be the Horizon for it. I thought the images looked better with the floor. If Dulsi wants me to just render them without the sand floor, I can. BTW, the Great White is actually animated. I just wanted quantity on this batch. Quite a few of these static images are actually animated, but I'm concerned about file size.

I hate that dragon turtle, but it's the only one I have.
Liked the old vampire, but *really* like the new version! For that matter I'm liking the addition all of these new undead (which, ironically, is making me miss having a "new" mummy and lich).
Lich is also on it's way, thanks to the vampire bundle I bought. Same with the Vampire Warrior and the Death Knight. Mummy is a bit of a problem, but I think I have a solution.

All in all, I spent about 300$ on models from Daz, which ironically, I probably shouldn't have. My store got bought out a month ago, by new owners and they let me go. -_- I really wish I had finished law school. My Art History degree is absolutely worthless. :(
Of course, honestly, kudoes on *all* the new stuff. There isn't really anything I'm not liking!

On my current "to do" list is to add an option to the random dungeon generator that creates a "city" (i.e. has a tendency to arrange things in a streets and 1x1 buildings pattern), along with more classic "mazes" (setting room weight to very low doesn't really look "labyrinth" like, IMO) and perhaps a "D&D" style (right now it really likes to create stuff that looks more "classic bard's tale" - which is by design - but I'd like to give it the ability to generate something that looks more like the pattern of hallways and rooms you'd draw if you were making a dungeon for pen and paper D&D, if that makes sense).

Well, enough rambling from me!

I really wish we had a way to put diagonal walls in the engine. There are so many dungeons from old D&D modules I'd like to re-create, but the limits of the engine prevent it.

I'm glad you liked the new images. More are on the way.
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

Image

This Lich enough for you, Caars? ;)


Here's the Ratling, Wererat, Skaven, whatever, I was talking about. It really needs hair.....

Image
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
dulsi
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by dulsi »

Methuselas wrote:Okay, no, it's not BTBuilder's birthday, but mine was yesterday.
:) Mine was Friday.
Methuselas wrote:Dulsi, if you can find the time and the drive, I really would like multiple attacks for monsters.
I'll see what I can do. I've been trying to add Animate Dead from the old BT games because someone emailed me about it.
caars
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by caars »

Wow ... I'm really liking them both. I agree that fur would improve the wererat, but I'm surprised by the degree to which he "looks fine" without it...
Modules for BT Builder (still very much works in progress):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

dulsi wrote: :) Mine was Friday.
Happy Belated!
I'll see what I can do. I've been trying to add Animate Dead from the old BT games because someone emailed me about it.
Isn't that just a summoning spell or am I confusing it with D&D?
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

caars wrote:Wow ... I'm really liking them both. I agree that fur would improve the wererat, but I'm surprised by the degree to which he "looks fine" without it...
Yeah, Sixus1 has got some really great models. His textures have gotten better, as the materials have improved with the improvements in the rendering engines. I just would like it to be a tad "fluffier."

So, question:

Is anyone planning on doing any "Lost World" maps or something similar to the old Expert Module: The Isle of Dread? I didn't know if I should start focusing on dinosaurs (the one dinosaur image in the batch is going to be replaced for an "Axe Beak", but still be a dinosaur.) If people want dinosaurs, I could probably do another art back, sooner, rather than later, but once again, it puffs up the archive size, as I only have one dinosaur slot.
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
caars
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by caars »

Methuselas wrote:
dulsi wrote: :) Mine was Friday.
Happy Belated!
I'll see what I can do. I've been trying to add Animate Dead from the old BT games because someone emailed me about it.
Isn't that just a summoning spell or am I confusing it with D&D?
You're thinking of Summon Dead (BT1 only, summons a skeleton or zombie). Animate Dead "restores" a dead character with the "possessed" condition, but rigs it so that he attacks enemies instead of the party (i.e. you have no control over the character, but he won't actually attack the party).

In BT1 the effect was permanent - which meant you could combine it with dispossess to get a kind of poor man's Beyond Death. In BT2 (and 3? I don't recall if it was still in 3) it did the same thing, but only lasted for the duration of the combat.

I'll admit I never tried to "dispossess" an "animated" character in BT2 to see if that would result in full revival...
Modules for BT Builder (still very much works in progress):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

caars wrote:In BT2 (and 3? I don't recall if it was still in 3) it did the same thing, but only lasted for the duration of the combat.

This is kinda pointless, as your dead characters end up at the back of the party per round. So, one dies, he's at the back, you waste around to revive him and then waste another round doing New Order, finally getting to attack and risking a mage or weaker character getting killed.


No wonder I never used it. :P
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
caars
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by caars »

Methuselas wrote:
caars wrote:In BT2 (and 3? I don't recall if it was still in 3) it did the same thing, but only lasted for the duration of the combat.

This is kinda pointless, as your dead characters end up at the back of the party per round. So, one dies, he's at the back, you waste around to revive him and then waste another round doing New Order, finally getting to attack and risking a mage or weaker character getting killed.


No wonder I never used it. :P
Yep, which is why I never used it in BT2 or 3. BT1 was a bit better, since you could do it outside of combat and put the character where you wanted him...

...or just dispossess him.
Modules for BT Builder (still very much works in progress):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Methuselas
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:03 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by Methuselas »

Hey, Guys. Just shouting out. We're okay. Parts of my area are under mandatory evac, but all the freeways are flooded, so even if we wanted to leave, we can't. Looks like we've got another week of raining, too.

I guess I should be grateful we still have power. Some of my friends and family, don't.
"Using No Way as Way; Having No Limitation As Limitation". - Bruce Lee.

BTBuilder Stuff - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
caars
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: Bt Builder

Post by caars »

Methuselas wrote:Hey, Guys. Just shouting out. We're okay. Parts of my area are under mandatory evac, but all the freeways are flooded, so even if we wanted to leave, we can't. Looks like we've got another week of raining, too.

I guess I should be grateful we still have power. Some of my friends and family, don't.
You are in the area of the hurricane? I didn't realize! I'm very glad you're (basically) okay. Stay safe!
Modules for BT Builder (still very much works in progress):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
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