The different threads on this forum have called attention to many significant differences between different versions of the games. Overall, it seems that the BT1 versions can be broadly categorized into first generation (Apple II, Commodore 64, and probably also the ZX Spectrum version, though I've never tried it) and second generation (Atari ST, Amiga, Apple IIgs, and PC). Each generation of games seems to be very similar.
These are some of the differences between the first and second generations:
1) Some of the monsters displayed under a different category of pictures. In the first generation, the Balrog uses the same graphic as the Old Man, Mongo, and Fred. In the second generation, Balrogs have their own unique graphic (Balrogs are only encountered on Mangar's Tower 5, 5N/20E). In the first generation, the Barbarian uses the same graphic as the Ogre, Ogre Magician, and Ogre Lord. In the second generation, the Barbarian has the same graphic as the Nomad, Berserker, and Bone Crusher.
2) In the first generation, the final fight is with 2 Greater Demons, 3 Vampire Lords, and 1 Mangar. In the second generation, there are 2 Demon Lords instead of Greater Demons. In the first generation, the only way you'll ever get to see Demon Lords is if a monster summons one (and now, you can see them by hacking -- if you haven't, it's worth checking them out).
3) In the first generation, you have to make your own way out of Mangar's Tower after killing Mangar. In the second generation, Kylearan transports you back to the Adventurer's Guild after you kill Mangar, which means, as we've found out, that you'll never be able to trigger the Lich encounter on level 5 of the tower.
4) A few spellings were corrected in the second generation, like "Mandar Guard" was changed to "Mangar Guard" (in the PC version -- I don't remember about the Apple IIgs). I think Ogre Magicians were Ogre Magi in the earlier versions, but I have to check).
5) Some dungeons used different categories of wall graphics. In the Apple II version, the sewers have their own unique graphic. In the Apple IIgs and PC version, they use the same graphic as the cellars.
6) You get a message when you enter the stables in the second generation. No message in the first generation.
7) The second generation has unique graphics for when you're facing the city gates, facing the castle, and standing in the stairwell leading into Mangar's and Kylearan's Towers. On the other hand, the second generation uses only one generic graphic for the empty building interiors. The first generation has a different graphic for each of the 4 types of empty buildings.
8 ) In the first generation, Bard songs always work the same way. In the second generation, bard songs appear to become more powerful depending on how difficult the dungeon you're in is. The easiest way to see this is with the Traveller's Tune (#5). In early levels, you get a tiny AC bonus. In the upper levels of Mangar's Tower, you get a big AC bonus.
9) In the PC version at least (I don't remember about the IIgs), the warning in Kylearan's Tower at 4N/5E reads "Beware the sting at the tail (south) of the serpent-way". In the Apple II, it leaves out "(south)", and leaves it up to you to deduce that they're talking about the south door when you get to the area in question.
Among the second generation BT1 versions, there are a few differences that I've noticed. I've only compared the IIgs and PC versions, however. In the IIgs version, your players can get drunk if they drink too much in an inn. Furthermore, if all your players get drunk, you get booted out (and it will automatically be nighttime).
The walls of the catacombs are animated in the IIgs. This is something I doubt many people have noticed, since the animation only shows up if you stand motionless in front of a wall for a while. The wall graphics look like an ossuary, with the walls lined with shelves stacked with skulls. If you stand in front of the wall for 30 seconds or so, the skulls start moving, and then a snake crawls out from between them, and then moves back in among the skulls. Furthermore, the doors are also animated, with glowing eyes in the skull forming the keystone over the doorways.
Somthing I've always been curious about is the dragon graphic. In the IIgs and PC version, the dragon never breathes fire. However, the back of the box for the IIgs version showed the picture of the dragon with a wisp of fire coming out of its mouth. The caption of the pictures stated that the screenshots were from the Amiga, so I'd like to know if they changed the animation in that version.
Anybody know of other differences?
Marco.
Differences between versions
There are a few differences between the Apple ][e original and the C64.
First, the Apple version is UUUGLY, mostly due to the flourescent color pallette. Next, it's the only 8-bit version with animated city-travel. Finally, the random battles in the city are twice as difficult as on the C64, with up to two groups attacking you at once. If you ever found it challenging getting a new party started on the C64, then try it on the Apple for even more "fun." The Apple implementation isn't as speedy as the C64 version, in my estimation. But I'm going but what happens on wildly different emulators, so that could be my imagination.
The Amiga version was the first of the 16-bit versions, and it's really the worst of them, in some ways. The high-res graphics and realistic-sounding music (different instruments sound different!) made it ground-breaking at the time it came out. But it's buggy as heck, and they cut a lot of corners to make it fit on two diskettes. For example, there are fewer monster pictures than on the 8-bit versions, and there's only one set of dungeon wall graphics. On the other hand, the dungeons have floors and ceilings, which makes it slightly easier to map and visualize. Unfortunately, bugs make doors that are ahead and to the side invisible, so you have to spin around a lot more to be sure you don't miss any. I haven't played any of the other 16-bit versions, but I hope they are better. I know the MSDOS version has ugly graphics though, making due with interpolated EGA or something cruddy like that.
First, the Apple version is UUUGLY, mostly due to the flourescent color pallette. Next, it's the only 8-bit version with animated city-travel. Finally, the random battles in the city are twice as difficult as on the C64, with up to two groups attacking you at once. If you ever found it challenging getting a new party started on the C64, then try it on the Apple for even more "fun." The Apple implementation isn't as speedy as the C64 version, in my estimation. But I'm going but what happens on wildly different emulators, so that could be my imagination.
The Amiga version was the first of the 16-bit versions, and it's really the worst of them, in some ways. The high-res graphics and realistic-sounding music (different instruments sound different!) made it ground-breaking at the time it came out. But it's buggy as heck, and they cut a lot of corners to make it fit on two diskettes. For example, there are fewer monster pictures than on the 8-bit versions, and there's only one set of dungeon wall graphics. On the other hand, the dungeons have floors and ceilings, which makes it slightly easier to map and visualize. Unfortunately, bugs make doors that are ahead and to the side invisible, so you have to spin around a lot more to be sure you don't miss any. I haven't played any of the other 16-bit versions, but I hope they are better. I know the MSDOS version has ugly graphics though, making due with interpolated EGA or something cruddy like that.
Death and drek? WTF?
You think so? I just ran the two versions side-by-side, and I was going to say that about the C64 version. The colors are extremely drab, while the Apple version has bright reds, greens, and blues. Everything seems to be dull and brown on the C64.Horpner wrote:There are a few differences between the Apple ][e original and the C64.
First, the Apple version is UUUGLY, mostly due to the flourescent color pallette.
Furthermore, there are some images (such as in the introduction) where the C64 version uses the same color for two parts, while the Apple version uses two different colors.
Now, this is an impression I've gotten with almost every C64 game I've tried, so I'm wondering if it's a problem with my emulator settings. I'm using Vice, which has a lot of video settings you can adjust. I don't have the first clue where to start playing around with them.
Marco.
As mainly ZX Spectrum fan i loaded Spectrum and here is diferences. ZX tape version lacks special gfx for guild and shop buildings when you face it. They are just ordinary blocks when facing it. ZX Spectrum 3+ disk version have that images for buildings. In both versions pics are not animated and you cant use ? key to see street name with time of day report. Night/Day cycle is still there.
Interesting -- I assume the tape version is the image with the "TAP" extension, while the 3+ disk version is the one with the "TZX" extension on the file name? I'm referring to the downloads that we have here on this site. I still haven't gotten around to trying them out.ataribaby wrote:As mainly ZX Spectrum fan i loaded Spectrum and here is diferences. ZX tape version lacks special gfx for guild and shop buildings when you face it. They are just ordinary blocks when facing it. ZX Spectrum 3+ disk version have that images for buildings. In both versions pics are not animated and you cant use ? key to see street name with time of day report. Night/Day cycle is still there.
Marco.
Well, TAP and TZX are tapes DSK is disk images. TAP is like T64 format and TZX more like C64 TAP format and can hold custom loaders etc. Only 3+ DSK Spectrum verison is that enhanced as i wroteMarco wrote:Interesting -- I assume the tape version is the image with the "TAP" extension, while the 3+ disk version is the one with the "TZX" extension on the file name? I'm referring to the downloads that we have here on this site. I still haven't gotten around to trying them out.ataribaby wrote:As mainly ZX Spectrum fan i loaded Spectrum and here is diferences. ZX tape version lacks special gfx for guild and shop buildings when you face it. They are just ordinary blocks when facing it. ZX Spectrum 3+ disk version have that images for buildings. In both versions pics are not animated and you cant use ? key to see street name with time of day report. Night/Day cycle is still there.
Marco.
The C64 tape BT1 was very similar to the disk version. Animations and some graphics were stripped out to get the core program into one load.
Also, the music on the tape version was far more basic, with monotone tunes which did not sound nice. The "ouch!" feature was unique to the disk version.
Adding and removing characters from the roster was a BIG pain because of the tape system so I suspect most people relied on the ATEAM to get going.
On the tape version, the statues in the city did not regenerate once you killed them.
EDIT - I was in error to think this. They do get regenerated.
The final battle with Mangar had no special text immediately before and after the fight. It was just like any other encounter, albeit with one of the monsters being 'a mangar'. All the magic mouths and special swares were present of course.
EDIT AGAIN my bad memory, I have confirmed that the text is displayed, but you dont get teleported back to the guild. This leaves you with a puzzle, how to get out. The solution is to teleport (APAR) two or more levels down.
The tape version was entirely held in memory, so there was never any delay when looking at special locations or monsters. The emulator disk versions still strike me as strange when there is a pause for disk access when simply looking at the guild or the shop. The tape version only needed access when loading dungeon levels, which included monsters, and when loading and saving at the guild. Mangar and Rosco had the standard magician graphic, which is a shame as it would have been a nice treat to see a new graphic at the final fight.
Also, the music on the tape version was far more basic, with monotone tunes which did not sound nice. The "ouch!" feature was unique to the disk version.
Adding and removing characters from the roster was a BIG pain because of the tape system so I suspect most people relied on the ATEAM to get going.
On the tape version, the statues in the city did not regenerate once you killed them.
EDIT - I was in error to think this. They do get regenerated.
The final battle with Mangar had no special text immediately before and after the fight. It was just like any other encounter, albeit with one of the monsters being 'a mangar'. All the magic mouths and special swares were present of course.
EDIT AGAIN my bad memory, I have confirmed that the text is displayed, but you dont get teleported back to the guild. This leaves you with a puzzle, how to get out. The solution is to teleport (APAR) two or more levels down.
The tape version was entirely held in memory, so there was never any delay when looking at special locations or monsters. The emulator disk versions still strike me as strange when there is a pause for disk access when simply looking at the guild or the shop. The tape version only needed access when loading dungeon levels, which included monsters, and when loading and saving at the guild. Mangar and Rosco had the standard magician graphic, which is a shame as it would have been a nice treat to see a new graphic at the final fight.
Last edited by Flanimal on Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Interesting. I play C64 dics version to have persistent destroyed statues (I dont like leveling on them every time i load saved game) in emulator in way that i save snapshot in emulator as save game and not use save game feature. That way i can get persistent town even when i return from wine cellar or other dungeons. it seems to be programmed to remeber statues sate in one session until you load save game or switch C64 off/on and reload all. I think same session persistance is in ZX spectrum version too. Btw by any chace do you have english Tap C64 files pretty please? i own original C64 tape version vut i cant sample it as my modern PC not have LPT port and my old transfer cable for dataset is useless now. I found just german Tap on net and original C64 disc version (but i think there is no *Ateam, strange) I will be very tnakful for english C64 tap files.Flanimal wrote:The C64 tape BT1 was very similar to the disk version. Animations and some graphics were stripped out to get the core program into one load.
Also, the music on the tape version was far more basic, with monotone tunes which did not sound nice. Monsters never advanved on the tape version. Garths shop did have its own graphic. The "ouch!" feature was unique to the disk version.
Adding and removing characters from the roster was a BIG pain because of the tape system so I suspect most people relied on the ATEAM to get going.
On the tape version, the statues in the city did not regenerate once you killed them.
The final battle with Mangar had no special text immediately before and after the fight. It was just like any other encounter, albeit with one of the monsters being 'a mangar'. All the magic mouths and special swares were present of course.
The tape version was entirely held in memory, so there was never any delay when looking at special locations or monsters. The emulator disk versions still strike me as strange when there is a pause for disk access when simply looking at the guild or the shop. The tape version only needed access when loading dungeon levels, which included monsters, and when loading and saving at the guild. Mangar and Rosco had the standard magician graphic, which is a shame as it would have been a nice treat to see a new graphic at the final fight.
Sorry ataribaby, I don't have tap files, nor do I have the tapes anymore. The only tap file I'm aware of is the German one.ataribaby wrote:
Interesting. I play C64 dics version to have persistent destroyed statues (I dont like leveling on them every time i load saved game) in emulator in way that i save snapshot in emulator as save game and not use save game feature. That way i can get persistent town even when i return from wine cellar or other dungeons. it seems to be programmed to remeber statues sate in one session until you load save game or switch C64 off/on and reload all. I think same session persistance is in ZX spectrum version too. Btw by any chace do you have english Tap C64 files pretty please? i own original C64 tape version vut i cant sample it as my modern PC not have LPT port and my old transfer cable for dataset is useless now. I found just german Tap on net and original C64 disc version (but i think there is no *Ateam, strange) I will be very tnakful for english C64 tap files.
More differences between C64 BT1 tapes and disk:
On the tape version in darkness area, casting a light spell lights up the scene until you move or turn. On the disk version the light almost immediately goes out. I suspect they put this feature in the tape version to make up for the lack of the ouch! feature when walking into walls.
Walking into walls or doors in darkness areas on the tape version briefly draws the scene.
Last edited by Flanimal on Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
More tape verson differences
The tape version has no 'sorry bud' message and picure when all your party is dead. Instead, the skeleton picture is drawn, and some other message is displayed, after which you are taken back to the guild, and are free to exit the guild (with all of your party dead), and so can head for a temple to heal everyone if you can afford it.
The tape version spinners only spin YOU, but correcly update your compass. On the disk version, both YOU and your compass are spun, and corrected only when you move.
The tape version spinners only spin YOU, but correcly update your compass. On the disk version, both YOU and your compass are spun, and corrected only when you move.
Hello!ataribaby wrote:Btw by any chace do you have english Tap C64 files pretty please? i own original C64 tape version vut i cant sample it as my modern PC not have LPT port and my old transfer cable for dataset is useless now. I found just german Tap on net and original C64 disc version (but i think there is no *Ateam, strange) I will be very tnakful for english C64 tap files.
I have found the English tape version!!
http://www.gamebase64.com/game.php?id=17616&d=18&h=0
I have decided I prefer the tape version to disk! On emulation level loading is fast anyway, and the fact that the game is all in memory means that it plays faster
I also have something special for you all - coming soon, my original saved party, and they are seriously kick-ass!!!!!!
Excelent find! i know this archive but never noticed english tap is thereFlanimal wrote:Hello!ataribaby wrote:Btw by any chace do you have english Tap C64 files pretty please? i own original C64 tape version vut i cant sample it as my modern PC not have LPT port and my old transfer cable for dataset is useless now. I found just german Tap on net and original C64 disc version (but i think there is no *Ateam, strange) I will be very tnakful for english C64 tap files.
I have found the English tape version!!
http://www.gamebase64.com/game.php?id=17616&d=18&h=0
I have decided I prefer the tape version to disk! On emulation level loading is fast anyway, and the fact that the game is all in memory means that it plays faster
I also have something special for you all - coming soon, my original saved party, and they are seriously kick-ass!!!!!!
Thanks a lot. I prefer tap too as i have original tape c64 package of BT1.Just finished re-playing through the PC-DOS version, and I've noticed quite a few differences between that and the Spectrum version that I played back in the day, that haven't already been mentioned above. As I've only ever played the PC and Spectrum versions, it would be interesting to confirm which differences are common to the 8 bit/16 bit versions and which are unique to the Speccy or PC. I may have to give the C64 version a go next 
1) Floor Traps - particularly Basilisk snares and poison gas clouds. These actually stone or poison characters when triggered on the Spectrum version, whereas they just cause HP damage with no other effect on the PC version.
2) The Crystal Sword can be picked up multiple times (Spec) if you have left and returned to the 1st level of the Castle - I used to have all of my front line fighters equipped with one. This is in contrast to only being available once on the PC version (though I didn't try dropping it to see if it would reappear in the game!)
3) The Eye is re-usable (Spec) and is not lost from your inventory after defeating the Mad God. PC - an extra trip to the Catacombs to get another one is required if you want to teleport to Kylearan's Tower
more than once.
4) In the Castle - The Captain of the Guard (Master Ninja) seems to be very easy to beat on the PC version - I had no problem at all killing him with a level 13 party. Spectrum version he was a nightmare to fight and
always got a critical hit on one of my party until I had a higher level special to get the 1st strike in before he could attack.
5) Conversely on the PC version the Mad God is a tough opponent who routinely managed to cast stone touch on one of my party until I had a Demon Lord in the special slot to get the 1st strike in. Spectrum version - the Mad God always 'Swung and missed' and was easily defeated.
6) Chests appear after all fights in Dungeons (PC) vs Chests only appear after fixed encounters and fixed random encounters (squares that always trigger an encounter). Random wandering encounters don't feature a chest and go straight to the XP/Gold treasure screen after the fight (Spec).
7) You still have to Open a chest once it has been TRZP'd (Spec) vs it opens automatically after TRZP (PC)
Upon exiting the Guild you face East (Spec) vs North (PC)
9) Buying a drink in an Inn on the Spectrum appears to cost no money! I first noticed this when I had all gold pooled by one of my mages to buy a spell level and sent my Bard into the Inn with no gold and he still got served
10) Miscellanious items that cast spells (Broom, Ali's Carpet, Magic Mouth) function like a Truth Drum and appear to be able to cast any spell in the spell book or summon any of the figurine types rather than just being able to cast MALE/AREN, etc on the Spectrum version (I'm assuming this is not the case on the other 8 bit versions based on what I've read on this forum?). In hindsight this made the Speccy version rather easier, as powerful specials (I usually went for Old Man) could be summoned earlier on in the game when brooms and magic mouths started to drop in the Castle.
11) The 'Locked Gate, press a key to head back...' screen appears when travelling back from either Mangar or Kylearan's Tower to the City proper and you don't yet have the Master Key on the Spec. This doesn't happen on the PC version.
12) This one might just be my perception, but Illusions seem to be automatically disbelieved (no need to DIIL) when characters are above a certain level on the PC version - this started happening on the 3rd level of the Castle. I don't remember this happening as frequently on the spectrum version.
1) Floor Traps - particularly Basilisk snares and poison gas clouds. These actually stone or poison characters when triggered on the Spectrum version, whereas they just cause HP damage with no other effect on the PC version.
2) The Crystal Sword can be picked up multiple times (Spec) if you have left and returned to the 1st level of the Castle - I used to have all of my front line fighters equipped with one. This is in contrast to only being available once on the PC version (though I didn't try dropping it to see if it would reappear in the game!)
3) The Eye is re-usable (Spec) and is not lost from your inventory after defeating the Mad God. PC - an extra trip to the Catacombs to get another one is required if you want to teleport to Kylearan's Tower
more than once.
4) In the Castle - The Captain of the Guard (Master Ninja) seems to be very easy to beat on the PC version - I had no problem at all killing him with a level 13 party. Spectrum version he was a nightmare to fight and
always got a critical hit on one of my party until I had a higher level special to get the 1st strike in before he could attack.
5) Conversely on the PC version the Mad God is a tough opponent who routinely managed to cast stone touch on one of my party until I had a Demon Lord in the special slot to get the 1st strike in. Spectrum version - the Mad God always 'Swung and missed' and was easily defeated.
6) Chests appear after all fights in Dungeons (PC) vs Chests only appear after fixed encounters and fixed random encounters (squares that always trigger an encounter). Random wandering encounters don't feature a chest and go straight to the XP/Gold treasure screen after the fight (Spec).
7) You still have to Open a chest once it has been TRZP'd (Spec) vs it opens automatically after TRZP (PC)
Upon exiting the Guild you face East (Spec) vs North (PC)9) Buying a drink in an Inn on the Spectrum appears to cost no money! I first noticed this when I had all gold pooled by one of my mages to buy a spell level and sent my Bard into the Inn with no gold and he still got served
10) Miscellanious items that cast spells (Broom, Ali's Carpet, Magic Mouth) function like a Truth Drum and appear to be able to cast any spell in the spell book or summon any of the figurine types rather than just being able to cast MALE/AREN, etc on the Spectrum version (I'm assuming this is not the case on the other 8 bit versions based on what I've read on this forum?). In hindsight this made the Speccy version rather easier, as powerful specials (I usually went for Old Man) could be summoned earlier on in the game when brooms and magic mouths started to drop in the Castle.
11) The 'Locked Gate, press a key to head back...' screen appears when travelling back from either Mangar or Kylearan's Tower to the City proper and you don't yet have the Master Key on the Spec. This doesn't happen on the PC version.
12) This one might just be my perception, but Illusions seem to be automatically disbelieved (no need to DIIL) when characters are above a certain level on the PC version - this started happening on the 3rd level of the Castle. I don't remember this happening as frequently on the spectrum version.