OK so I can get to Mangar and I'm all ready to battle him and his demon lords and Vampire Lords...
How should I fight correctly? Sometimes its easy to beat all these guys but then sometimes the Demons stone my men and the vampires rob levels which basically screws you for EX points...the stone guys get none and the LVL down guys are reset to the original level score!!! VERY ANNOYING!!!
So I'm thinking you have to take mangar out quick with MindFist and maybe spectre snare a few of the demons...but they usually get the jump on me and stone or drain me first...
I use frost horn and dragonshields and spectre snares and MIFI and MIBL and REST. Sometimes I get beat up bad though...
How can i get them? My guys are around Level 20-28...
How to Battle Mangar correctly?
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Van Slaylin
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:08 am
- Location: Canada
You're wasting your time by using MIBL. Your best bet is the DEST spell. Instant death for one monster, and it hardly ever fails to work. The fight starts with mangar, 2 demon lords, and 3 vampire lords. Mangar almost always summons another demon lord on his turn, so you basically have to fight 3. You have to ensure that each one of your characters, including the special, automatically kills one monster per attack.
My party consists of a warrior, paladin, monk, bard, and 2 archmages. For the mangar fight, I usually have a wind giant for my S slot. The warrior and bard both have spectre snares. Each character is around level 60, from many honest hours spent killing Harkyn's berserkers over and over again. I have noticed that at these uber-high levels, my characters often (but not always) strike first -- even faster than a storm giant or demon lord or other monster who always seems to get the drop on characters who are level 20 or 30. So if I'm lucky, my front-rank characters will sometimes beat the demons and vampires at the attack, and kill them before they have a chance to do anything to me.
Furthermore, I firmly believe that Bards Tale I keeps track of what your true AC is, even if it displays LO on the status screen. My front rank characters have LO AC even before equipping the 'snare, but I have noticed that they get hit even less after equipping the 'snare (which lowers your AC by another whopping 6 or 7 points). Thus, when you are equipped to the teeth with the best AC-lowering stuff, even powerful monsters like the demons and vampires almost always miss.
So if I'm lucky, my characters will be unscathed, and the whole fight is over in 2 rounds (sometimes just 1). If I'm not, I'll lose one person to stoning, but usually not more than that. The fight is still over in 2 rounds, though. If it takes longer than that, you're almost guaranteed a stoning or a level drain. What's critical isn't so much that you have super high levels. You want to get your hands on the best AC-lowering stuff available, and you want to make sure that every time one of your characters gets an action, it results in the death of one of your enemies. So that means DEST for your archmages, using the 'snare for your bard, and attacking with the 'snare for your front rank folks.
Marco.
My party consists of a warrior, paladin, monk, bard, and 2 archmages. For the mangar fight, I usually have a wind giant for my S slot. The warrior and bard both have spectre snares. Each character is around level 60, from many honest hours spent killing Harkyn's berserkers over and over again. I have noticed that at these uber-high levels, my characters often (but not always) strike first -- even faster than a storm giant or demon lord or other monster who always seems to get the drop on characters who are level 20 or 30. So if I'm lucky, my front-rank characters will sometimes beat the demons and vampires at the attack, and kill them before they have a chance to do anything to me.
Furthermore, I firmly believe that Bards Tale I keeps track of what your true AC is, even if it displays LO on the status screen. My front rank characters have LO AC even before equipping the 'snare, but I have noticed that they get hit even less after equipping the 'snare (which lowers your AC by another whopping 6 or 7 points). Thus, when you are equipped to the teeth with the best AC-lowering stuff, even powerful monsters like the demons and vampires almost always miss.
So if I'm lucky, my characters will be unscathed, and the whole fight is over in 2 rounds (sometimes just 1). If I'm not, I'll lose one person to stoning, but usually not more than that. The fight is still over in 2 rounds, though. If it takes longer than that, you're almost guaranteed a stoning or a level drain. What's critical isn't so much that you have super high levels. You want to get your hands on the best AC-lowering stuff available, and you want to make sure that every time one of your characters gets an action, it results in the death of one of your enemies. So that means DEST for your archmages, using the 'snare for your bard, and attacking with the 'snare for your front rank folks.
Marco.
If your sitting at the level you'd happen to be if you just solved every dungeon as you went along, then you are level 21-26, and this battle is extremely dangerous.
Having an extra spell-caster is very useful, but you can get by with two.
First, hopefully at least one of your casters is a high level in his current class; hopefully higher than 13. This guy will MIFI on Mangar.
The Demon lords are much more dangerous than the Vampire lords, since there's no cure for stoning except leaving. Kill the demons first. I use STTO, personally. I think it might be a little cheaper than DEST.
A greater demon in your special slot is a good choice. He's likely to wipe out one of your enemies, though he'll be frikken slow about it.
If your fighters aren't equipped with powerful insta-death weapons like the snares, or stoneblades, then they should gang up on the Vampire lords with dragonshields. That ought to take them out.
You want the best possible AC you can get, so always approach Mangar from the northern room which normaly contains the spectre snare--in other words, always go around, and get your MYSH and bards song #5 in place before attacking. It'll really help you avoid unhappy accidents. If you just waltz in the front door you get anti-magiced before the fight.
Finally, you simply have to get kind of lucky to avoid a stoning and level draining. Sometimes, the monsters all cast useless spells, and sometimes you get creamed.
Don't spellbind Mangar. It just makes him angry; he won't fight for the party.
When it comes to power-leveling yourself, the legions of Baron Harkyn actually aren't the best--they are currently third-place. The 36 Ghouls in the third level of the Catacombs are faster. Fastest of all, that I've found, is the 56 (or so?) Ghouls on the fourth level of Mangar's tower. They are hanging around in one of the northern rooms jutting out of Mangar's crypt. They are super-easy to defeat (two REDE and they are toast), and it takes just seconds to cast an APAR +1S, and start the battle all over again.
Having an extra spell-caster is very useful, but you can get by with two.
First, hopefully at least one of your casters is a high level in his current class; hopefully higher than 13. This guy will MIFI on Mangar.
The Demon lords are much more dangerous than the Vampire lords, since there's no cure for stoning except leaving. Kill the demons first. I use STTO, personally. I think it might be a little cheaper than DEST.
A greater demon in your special slot is a good choice. He's likely to wipe out one of your enemies, though he'll be frikken slow about it.
If your fighters aren't equipped with powerful insta-death weapons like the snares, or stoneblades, then they should gang up on the Vampire lords with dragonshields. That ought to take them out.
You want the best possible AC you can get, so always approach Mangar from the northern room which normaly contains the spectre snare--in other words, always go around, and get your MYSH and bards song #5 in place before attacking. It'll really help you avoid unhappy accidents. If you just waltz in the front door you get anti-magiced before the fight.
Finally, you simply have to get kind of lucky to avoid a stoning and level draining. Sometimes, the monsters all cast useless spells, and sometimes you get creamed.
Don't spellbind Mangar. It just makes him angry; he won't fight for the party.
When it comes to power-leveling yourself, the legions of Baron Harkyn actually aren't the best--they are currently third-place. The 36 Ghouls in the third level of the Catacombs are faster. Fastest of all, that I've found, is the 56 (or so?) Ghouls on the fourth level of Mangar's tower. They are hanging around in one of the northern rooms jutting out of Mangar's crypt. They are super-easy to defeat (two REDE and they are toast), and it takes just seconds to cast an APAR +1S, and start the battle all over again.
Death and drek? WTF?
I didn't write this post, what the hell?
Last edited by Darendor on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As far as equipment goes:
There are 10 different classes of items in the game: Armor, Gloves, Helmets, Shields, Weapons, Figurines, Instruments, Rings, Wands, and misc.
By the time you get to the boss, the Figurines are pretty much useless as your wizard should be able to summon creatures that are far better than what comes from anything in that class of item, taking the total possible classes of useful items down to 9. Bards are the only class that can use instruments, which takes the total useful classes down to 8, except for the bard... who is also restricted to 8 because he (like all other non-magical classes) cannot use wands, which in turn takes all other non-magical classes down to 7, which is lucky because there are 8 items each character can carry.
If you developed your magic users so they would become archmages in any class beside wizard, they will be restricted to 6 useable item classes, since there are no gloves or helms that can be worn by magicians, conjurers, or sorcerers (unless you do the 'equip trick' for gloves and helms before getting them out of the wizard class. If they are wizards, they have 8 useful classes of items to choose from. For the purposes of my list, I won't be using items that the particular class cannot normally equip.
also:
There are 3 Misc. items that are required to get to the final battle: the silver shapes; and one that is an option: the onyx key... which is a lot easier to use than running though the sewers to get to the tower... so it, for all practical purposes, is a required item as well.
If an items has more than one possibility (Usually weapons in this list) it is because they (in my humble opinion) are of equal use in the final battle, take your pick.
These are the items I would go with (AC for items in parentheses):
WARRIOR
Armor: Diamond Plate ( 8 )
Gloves: Wargloves ( 5 )
Helmet: Diamond Helm ( 4 )
Shield: Diamond Shield ( 5 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Troll Staff, Death Dagger
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 1 ), Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: One of the silver shapes ( 1 )
This equipent gives a warrior an AC bonus of -32.
PALADIN
Armor: Mthr Plate ( 6 )
Gloves: War Gloves ( 5 )
Helmet: Diamond Helm ( 4 )
Shield: Admt Shield ( 4 )
Weapon: Arc's Hammer, Diamond Sword
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: One of the silver shapes ( 1 )
Total AC Bonus: -22
ROGUE
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Mtrh gloves ( 2 )
Helmet: Mths Helm ( 2 )
Shield: Arc Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Troll Staff, Death Dagger, War Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: Elf Cloak ( 2 ) *and* one of the silver shapes ( 1 )
Total AC Bonus: -18
BARD
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Wargloves ( 5 )
Helmet: Admt Helm ( 3 ), Travel Helm ( 3 )
Shield: Admt Shield ( 4 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Death Dagger
Figurine: None
Instrument: Flame Horn
Ring: Troll Ring, Shield Ring ( 2 )
Wand: None
Misc: Elf Cloak ( 2 )
Total AC Bonus: -31
NOTE: I did not include the ever useful bardsword because by the time you get to the boss fight, your bard should be high enough level, that he will have songs left to sing by the time he gets to the boss, making it useless for the final battle. *ALSO* I would not give the bard a silver shape to carry because he's maxed out on items with the above list, and the cloak is more useful for keeping him alive.
HUNTER
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Admt Gloves ( 3 )
Helmet: Spirithelm ( 3 ), or Admt Helm ( 3 )
Shield: Admt Shield ( 4 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Troll Staff, or Stoneblade
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Troll Ring, or Shield Ring ( 2 )
Wand: None
Misc: Two Silver Shapes (1 AC each), and the Onyx key
Total AC Bonus: -28
MONK
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Leather Gloves ( 1 )
Helmet: NONE
Shield: Arc Shield ( 3 ) or Mtrh Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: NONE, but if you insist: Death Dagger or Wither Staff
Figurine: NONE
Instrument: NONE
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ) or Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: All 3 silver shapes (1 AC each), Onyx Key
Total AC Bonus: -15
NOTE: Death Dagger and WitherStaff are the best weapons a monk can equip, but would probably be better off with his bare hands.
CONJURER
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: None
Helmet: None
Shield: Mthr Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Mage Staff ( 2 ), or Troll Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Dragonwand ( 1 )
Misc: Speedboots ( 1 ) and 2 Silver Shapes (2) *OR* no boots and all three Silver shapes (3)
Total AC Bonus: -17
Note: By the time you get to the Boss, items that regen Magic Points should be of little use to your magic users, thus a waste of item slots.
MAGICIAN (This is a copy/paste of Conjurer)
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: None
Helmet: None
Shield: Mthr Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Mage Staff ( 2 ), or Troll Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Dragonwand ( 1 )
Misc: Speedboots ( 1 ) and 2 Silver Shapes (2) *OR* no boots and all three Silver shapes (3)
Total AC Bonus: -17
Note: By the time you get to the Boss, items that regen Magic Points should be of little use to your magic users, thus a waste of item slots.
SORCERER (This is a Copy/Paste of Magicians and Conjurers)
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: None
Helmet: None
Shield: Mthr Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Mage Staff ( 2 ), or Troll Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Dragonwand ( 1 )
Misc: Speedboots ( 1 ) and 2 Silver Shapes (2) *OR* no boots and all three Silver shapes (3)
Total AC Bonus: -17
Note: By the time you get to the Boss, items that regen Magic Points should be of little use to your magic users, thus a waste of item slots.
WIZARD
ARMOR: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Mtrh Gloves ( 2 )
Helm: Lorehelm ( 2 )
Shield: Luckshield ( 2 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Troll Staff, or Death Dagger
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Wizwand ( 2 )
Misc: Elf Cloak ( 2 )
Total AC Bonus: -26
There are 10 different classes of items in the game: Armor, Gloves, Helmets, Shields, Weapons, Figurines, Instruments, Rings, Wands, and misc.
By the time you get to the boss, the Figurines are pretty much useless as your wizard should be able to summon creatures that are far better than what comes from anything in that class of item, taking the total possible classes of useful items down to 9. Bards are the only class that can use instruments, which takes the total useful classes down to 8, except for the bard... who is also restricted to 8 because he (like all other non-magical classes) cannot use wands, which in turn takes all other non-magical classes down to 7, which is lucky because there are 8 items each character can carry.
If you developed your magic users so they would become archmages in any class beside wizard, they will be restricted to 6 useable item classes, since there are no gloves or helms that can be worn by magicians, conjurers, or sorcerers (unless you do the 'equip trick' for gloves and helms before getting them out of the wizard class. If they are wizards, they have 8 useful classes of items to choose from. For the purposes of my list, I won't be using items that the particular class cannot normally equip.
also:
There are 3 Misc. items that are required to get to the final battle: the silver shapes; and one that is an option: the onyx key... which is a lot easier to use than running though the sewers to get to the tower... so it, for all practical purposes, is a required item as well.
If an items has more than one possibility (Usually weapons in this list) it is because they (in my humble opinion) are of equal use in the final battle, take your pick.
These are the items I would go with (AC for items in parentheses):
WARRIOR
Armor: Diamond Plate ( 8 )
Gloves: Wargloves ( 5 )
Helmet: Diamond Helm ( 4 )
Shield: Diamond Shield ( 5 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Troll Staff, Death Dagger
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 1 ), Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: One of the silver shapes ( 1 )
This equipent gives a warrior an AC bonus of -32.
PALADIN
Armor: Mthr Plate ( 6 )
Gloves: War Gloves ( 5 )
Helmet: Diamond Helm ( 4 )
Shield: Admt Shield ( 4 )
Weapon: Arc's Hammer, Diamond Sword
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: One of the silver shapes ( 1 )
Total AC Bonus: -22
ROGUE
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Mtrh gloves ( 2 )
Helmet: Mths Helm ( 2 )
Shield: Arc Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Troll Staff, Death Dagger, War Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: Elf Cloak ( 2 ) *and* one of the silver shapes ( 1 )
Total AC Bonus: -18
BARD
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Wargloves ( 5 )
Helmet: Admt Helm ( 3 ), Travel Helm ( 3 )
Shield: Admt Shield ( 4 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Death Dagger
Figurine: None
Instrument: Flame Horn
Ring: Troll Ring, Shield Ring ( 2 )
Wand: None
Misc: Elf Cloak ( 2 )
Total AC Bonus: -31
NOTE: I did not include the ever useful bardsword because by the time you get to the boss fight, your bard should be high enough level, that he will have songs left to sing by the time he gets to the boss, making it useless for the final battle. *ALSO* I would not give the bard a silver shape to carry because he's maxed out on items with the above list, and the cloak is more useful for keeping him alive.
HUNTER
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Admt Gloves ( 3 )
Helmet: Spirithelm ( 3 ), or Admt Helm ( 3 )
Shield: Admt Shield ( 4 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Troll Staff, or Stoneblade
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Troll Ring, or Shield Ring ( 2 )
Wand: None
Misc: Two Silver Shapes (1 AC each), and the Onyx key
Total AC Bonus: -28
MONK
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Leather Gloves ( 1 )
Helmet: NONE
Shield: Arc Shield ( 3 ) or Mtrh Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: NONE, but if you insist: Death Dagger or Wither Staff
Figurine: NONE
Instrument: NONE
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ) or Troll Ring
Wand: None
Misc: All 3 silver shapes (1 AC each), Onyx Key
Total AC Bonus: -15
NOTE: Death Dagger and WitherStaff are the best weapons a monk can equip, but would probably be better off with his bare hands.
CONJURER
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: None
Helmet: None
Shield: Mthr Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Mage Staff ( 2 ), or Troll Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Dragonwand ( 1 )
Misc: Speedboots ( 1 ) and 2 Silver Shapes (2) *OR* no boots and all three Silver shapes (3)
Total AC Bonus: -17
Note: By the time you get to the Boss, items that regen Magic Points should be of little use to your magic users, thus a waste of item slots.
MAGICIAN (This is a copy/paste of Conjurer)
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: None
Helmet: None
Shield: Mthr Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Mage Staff ( 2 ), or Troll Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Dragonwand ( 1 )
Misc: Speedboots ( 1 ) and 2 Silver Shapes (2) *OR* no boots and all three Silver shapes (3)
Total AC Bonus: -17
Note: By the time you get to the Boss, items that regen Magic Points should be of little use to your magic users, thus a waste of item slots.
SORCERER (This is a Copy/Paste of Magicians and Conjurers)
Armor: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: None
Helmet: None
Shield: Mthr Shield ( 3 )
Weapon: Mage Staff ( 2 ), or Troll Staff
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Dragonwand ( 1 )
Misc: Speedboots ( 1 ) and 2 Silver Shapes (2) *OR* no boots and all three Silver shapes (3)
Total AC Bonus: -17
Note: By the time you get to the Boss, items that regen Magic Points should be of little use to your magic users, thus a waste of item slots.
WIZARD
ARMOR: Bracers [4] ( 6 )
Gloves: Mtrh Gloves ( 2 )
Helm: Lorehelm ( 2 )
Shield: Luckshield ( 2 )
Weapon: Spectre Snare ( 8 ), Troll Staff, or Death Dagger
Figurine: None
Instrument: None
Ring: Shield Ring ( 2 ), or Troll Ring
Wand: Wizwand ( 2 )
Misc: Elf Cloak ( 2 )
Total AC Bonus: -26
I used to think that Spellbind was useless on Mangar as he would attack the party. However, my level 169 wizard successfully cast SPBD on him and it worked, making Manger officially owned. This was on the c64 tape version with a genuine, legit party.
So SPBD is not hard coded to fail with Mangar, and presumably there is a level-related probability involved.
So SPBD is not hard coded to fail with Mangar, and presumably there is a level-related probability involved.
My strategy on the final battle depends on my party makeup and levels. But there are some general guidelines.
My order of attack is Demon Lords, Mangar, Vampire Lords, any other summoned monsters.
KILL THE Demon Lords FIRST. If a Demon Lord decides to hit you (as opposed to breathe on you or summon another demon) you're pretty much stoned. Demon Lords will try to hit you pretty much half the time, and there are two of them. If my party isn't faster then they are, I expect one of my guys to be stoned before I even have a chance to hit them. If they decide to breathe on me, that'll do about 180 damage to anyone who doesn't resist it.
I don't worry as much about the Vampire Lords. If they hit me, it'll drain a level, but I use the DOS version of the Bard's Tale, so I can go buy that level back, (and another one to boot) at the temple. Or, the 300,000 experience Kylearan gives me will make up for that. Sure, they might Death Strike me, but if I'm high enough level I can resist that, or at least resurrect myself after. They're no worse than Mangar, and the Summon Phantom they might cast is relatively wimpy.
In order to finish the last battle without casualties, my characters have to hit first. That means either high level characters, or characters that have been through a LOT of battles, or some combination of the two. A Monk with no battle count can consistently beat Mangar and the Demon Lords at level 120 or so. Warriors, Paladins and Hunters at 240. Others are above 256, and I never go that high due to the level up bug. A level one character has to survive about 60,000 battles in order to consistently be faster than Mangar and the Demon Lords. I have never run a party through that many battles without using a keystroke playback program. It takes a lot of work to build characters that will hit first during the last battle, so normally I don't do that and consequently I expect some casualties during the fight.
However, the casualties can be minimized. If my magic users are less than level 28, I get them Luck Shields. I make sure all of my characters have 18 Dex and 18 Luck. And I make sure my front level guys have an armor class of LO. Research has shown that going beyond -10 doesn't help, so I don't bother carrying around extra equipment.
I love having Thor in my party. He's fast, and if he doesn't get killed first, he guarantees one kill in the first group. Sometimes he's faster than Mangar and the Demon Lords.
Casting MIBL twice actually is quite effective in the MSDOS version, due to the targeting bug. If it isn't resisted it guarantees at least one kill in each group of monsters. Which means it will kill Mangar, and anything he summons, and one of the Vampire Lords. So if I have three melee characters, like a Hunter, a Monk, and a Bard, I'll equip the Bard with the Spectre Snare and attack two Demon Lords and one Vampire Lord with the melee guys. Then I can cast two Mind Blades, and the other Mage is free to cast Death Strike or Stone Touch on the last Vampire Lord. If I get lucky and none of my melee guys gets stoned, the encounter is usually over in one round.
My order of attack is Demon Lords, Mangar, Vampire Lords, any other summoned monsters.
KILL THE Demon Lords FIRST. If a Demon Lord decides to hit you (as opposed to breathe on you or summon another demon) you're pretty much stoned. Demon Lords will try to hit you pretty much half the time, and there are two of them. If my party isn't faster then they are, I expect one of my guys to be stoned before I even have a chance to hit them. If they decide to breathe on me, that'll do about 180 damage to anyone who doesn't resist it.
I don't worry as much about the Vampire Lords. If they hit me, it'll drain a level, but I use the DOS version of the Bard's Tale, so I can go buy that level back, (and another one to boot) at the temple. Or, the 300,000 experience Kylearan gives me will make up for that. Sure, they might Death Strike me, but if I'm high enough level I can resist that, or at least resurrect myself after. They're no worse than Mangar, and the Summon Phantom they might cast is relatively wimpy.
In order to finish the last battle without casualties, my characters have to hit first. That means either high level characters, or characters that have been through a LOT of battles, or some combination of the two. A Monk with no battle count can consistently beat Mangar and the Demon Lords at level 120 or so. Warriors, Paladins and Hunters at 240. Others are above 256, and I never go that high due to the level up bug. A level one character has to survive about 60,000 battles in order to consistently be faster than Mangar and the Demon Lords. I have never run a party through that many battles without using a keystroke playback program. It takes a lot of work to build characters that will hit first during the last battle, so normally I don't do that and consequently I expect some casualties during the fight.
However, the casualties can be minimized. If my magic users are less than level 28, I get them Luck Shields. I make sure all of my characters have 18 Dex and 18 Luck. And I make sure my front level guys have an armor class of LO. Research has shown that going beyond -10 doesn't help, so I don't bother carrying around extra equipment.
I love having Thor in my party. He's fast, and if he doesn't get killed first, he guarantees one kill in the first group. Sometimes he's faster than Mangar and the Demon Lords.
Casting MIBL twice actually is quite effective in the MSDOS version, due to the targeting bug. If it isn't resisted it guarantees at least one kill in each group of monsters. Which means it will kill Mangar, and anything he summons, and one of the Vampire Lords. So if I have three melee characters, like a Hunter, a Monk, and a Bard, I'll equip the Bard with the Spectre Snare and attack two Demon Lords and one Vampire Lord with the melee guys. Then I can cast two Mind Blades, and the other Mage is free to cast Death Strike or Stone Touch on the last Vampire Lord. If I get lucky and none of my melee guys gets stoned, the encounter is usually over in one round.