Mangar's Tower Level 5 mystery square (spoilers)

Van Slaylin · Post by **Van Slaylin** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:18 pm

Horpner wrote:
Darendor wrote:On the C64 version, the disk drive only spins once, then if you say rotate on the square it behaves like a teleport special (i.e. Teleport to say 7N, 7E for instance), only it teleports you to where you are - almost like a spinner only you remain facing the same direction. And why would it try to teleport you down a level? I don't get it.
The idea is that you're supposed to figure out that you can go around that square by taking one of the doors to the south of where you get teleported in. Otherwise, you'd keep getting sent back to level 3 or 4. I'm guessing it would be level three, since that would be far more annoying.

I'm thinking that you guys are pretty close...However since that square that runs the drive is right near the place you need the silver shapes maybe it has something to do with that...Like if you dont have all the shapes you will be allowed to go north through it and then when you are denied entrance you will be teleported out when you begin to walk back south over it???

Horpner · Post by **Horpner** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:06 pm

Van Slaylin wrote:I'm thinking that you guys are pretty close...However since that square that runs the drive is right near the place you need the silver shapes maybe it has something to do with that...Like if you dont have all the shapes you will be allowed to go north through it and then when you are denied entrance you will be teleported out when you begin to walk back south over it???

None of the theories that involve walking out across this square work, since that's impossible--tou can't get back through the silver square wall/door once you fight Mangar.

Darendor · Post by **Darendor** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:41 pm

Horpner wrote:
Van Slaylin wrote:I'm thinking that you guys are pretty close...However since that square that runs the drive is right near the place you need the silver shapes maybe it has something to do with that...Like if you dont have all the shapes you will be allowed to go north through it and then when you are denied entrance you will be teleported out when you begin to walk back south over it???
None of the theories that involve walking out across this square work, since that's impossible--tou can't get back through the silver square wall/door once you fight Mangar.

You can't? That's weird.

Horpner · Post by **Horpner** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:49 pm

Darendor wrote:You can't? That's weird.

Yes, on the Apple ][e and Amiga versions. Walk through the door and then try to turn around and go back, and you'll find there's just a wall there.

Darendor · Post by **Darendor** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:03 pm

Horpner wrote:
Darendor wrote:You can't? That's weird.
Yes, on the Apple ][e and Amiga versions. Walk through the door and then try to turn around and go back, and you'll find there's just a wall there.

I'm a C64 man, you should know this by now.

Still, I'll look into it.

Darendor · Post by **Darendor** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:34 pm

Yes you're right of course. I even mapped it as such.

Horpner · Post by **Horpner** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:56 pm

Darendor wrote:I'm a C64 man, you should know this by now.

Still, I'll look into it.

Oh, I know. I just hadn't verified the behavior in that version. I'm a C64 man myself, but I'm playing the Amiga version this time through. I should be an Amiga man, but it just never found a place in my heart.

Marco · Post by **Marco** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:07 pm

I also thought that square might have something to do with the shapes. However, I have tried walking over it without a complete set, and also when I wasn't carrying any of them, and nothing special happened.

I've even tried crossing the square after dropping all of my characters' equipment, and still nothing happened. (needless to say, I didn't save that game)

Marco.

Darendor · Post by **Darendor** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:34 am

Given all the hacking Horpner and I have been doing on the dungeon disk lately, you'd think we'd be taking a look at this silly square and figuring out what it does.

What do you figure, Horpner?

Darendor · Post by **Darendor** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:35 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zt5jV3vo6A

Marco · Post by **Marco** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:35 am

How did you get THAT to happen?!!!

First of all, how were you able to APAR to the 5th level of Mangar? Is this something you were able to hack in the game? Secondly, why didn't defeating Mangar teleport you back to the adventurer's guild? Is this something specific to the C64 version of the game? Thirdly, why did you have to fight Mangar first? Does this square trigger the lich fight only after you've defeated Mangar?

Please explain!

Marco.

Darendor · Post by **Darendor** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:13 am

The explanation is found in the most recent posts of this thread: http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefil ... .php?t=787

Horpner figured out how to disable teleport/PHDO shielding on dungeon levels loaded into memory. By changing a few bytes, I was able to teleport directly to Mangar's antechamber (and anywhere else within the level).

Marco · Post by **Marco** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:53 pm

EXCELLENT! A 20 year-old mystery is finally solved! I'm thrilled! Actually, two 20 year-old mysteries, since we've finally also figured out what the liches look like.

So, I did just now some experimentation with the Apple 2 and PC versions of the game, and it seems your theories are all correct. The Apple 2 version, like the C64, does not transport you to the Adventurer's Guild after killing Mangar. So, after fighting Mangar, if you APAR elsewhere in the tower, then come back upstairs, you fight the liches.

The PC and Apple 2gs versions, on the other hand, transport you directly to the guild after defeating Mangar. I can't try this on the 2gs version, since I don't have powerful characters anymore, but on the PC, once you've entered the guild, it seems that all the global "we killed Mangar" flags are reset. So if you come back to that square, nothing happens, even if you didn't reset the computer before doing so.

A bit of carelessness on the part of the folks who ported the game to the newer platforms, when all they were trying to do was make things a bit more convenient for you after you went through all the trouble of defeating the bad guy.

Marco.

Darendor · Post by **Darendor** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:53 pm

Why don't you build up a party on the IIgs version the old-fashioned way (and not how I did in my video:?)?

I should actually try killing Mangar and going to the guild then going back to him just to be certain.

Marco wrote:EXCELLENT! A 20 year-old mystery is finally solved! I'm thrilled! Actually, two 20 year-old mysteries, since we've finally also figured out what the liches look like.

So, I did just now some experimentation with the Apple 2 and PC versions of the game, and it seems your theories are all correct. The Apple 2 version, like the C64, does not transport you to the Adventurer's Guild after killing Mangar. So, after fighting Mangar, if you APAR elsewhere in the tower, then come back upstairs, you fight the liches.

The PC and Apple 2gs versions, on the other hand, transport you directly to the guild after defeating Mangar. I can't try this on the 2gs version, since I don't have powerful characters anymore, but on the PC, once you've entered the guild, it seems that all the global "we killed Mangar" flags are reset. So if you come back to that square, nothing happens, even if you didn't reset the computer before doing so.

A bit of carelessness on the part of the folks who ported the game to the newer platforms, when all they were trying to do was make things a bit more convenient for you after you went through all the trouble of defeating the bad guy.

Marco.