I challenge you to prove it!
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that with all the poking around we've been doing lately we should be able to settle the issue once and for all.
Who's in?
Mangar's 6 Levels - I'm Wrong? Prove It!
Mangar's 6 Levels - I'm Wrong? Prove It!
Alright, remember how I posited that Mangar's Tower is made up of 6 levels and not 5 and some of you think I'm wrong?
I challenge you to prove it!
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that with all the poking around we've been doing lately we should be able to settle the issue once and for all.
Who's in?
I challenge you to prove it!
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that with all the poking around we've been doing lately we should be able to settle the issue once and for all.
Who's in?
Okay, I'll bite. I can't prove you wrong, though. I can only give you my reason for thinking so. Hopefully, in the near future, we'll have enough information that the whole argument will become moot.
To summarize for the rest what you're talking about: on Mangar level 4, there is a special square located at 20N/3E. When you step on that square, every wall on the level turns into a door, and every door turns into a wall, which allows you to travel to a bunch of otherwise inaccessible places (such as the portal to the next level). Darendor has argued that the game code handled this by having two "Mangar's Tower 4" levels -- one the normal version, and the other the changed version. Others think that there is only one "Mangar 4" and the game code applied the changes directly to the level itself.
My main reason for thinking there is only one level is because of the unusual way the 3 secret doors behave after the change. If you induce the change while using the spell MAFL, or a torch, or some other light that does not reveal secret doors, then the secret doors appear to be walls but still function perfectly well as secret doors. However, if you induce the change while a spell like GRRE was operating, the secret doors are unusable -- they're just walls. It seems weird for the square to teleport you to a level with a different arrangement depending on the current lighting conditions.
And here's a neat thing to try: induce the change while MAFL is in operation, then stand in front of a secret door (convince yourself that it works perfectly well as a secret door). Next, cast GRRE. Nothing visibly changes, but all of the sudden, the secret door is now an impassible wall. So the effect generated by the special square is something actively in operation at all times, which from a coding standpoint, makes the need for an extra level superfluous. CAVEAT! This is true of the PC version of the game. The Apple 2 version does nothing of the sort -- the special square replaces doors with walls, walls with doors, but secret doors are replaced with nothing (meaning no wall, no door, no secret door), regardless of the lighting conditions when you stand on the special square. I just rechecked these two versions 5 minutes ago. I do not remember if the Apple 2gs version did things like the PC or like the Apple 2. I want to say it was more like the PC, since this is how I've written it on my maps, which were almost all made while I was playing the 2gs version. I'm now curious about the C64 and Amiga versions.
My other reason for thinking so is that any special encounters you fought and traps you sprung are gone in the changed version. On the other hand, any traps you did not zap away, or any special monsters you didn't get rid of in Mangar's Crypt are still present after the change. I doubt they would have paid so much attention to detail as to keep track of these sorts of things on two separate levels.
I am very open to the possibility that the effect on Mangar 4 may have been coded differently on different versions.
Marco.
To summarize for the rest what you're talking about: on Mangar level 4, there is a special square located at 20N/3E. When you step on that square, every wall on the level turns into a door, and every door turns into a wall, which allows you to travel to a bunch of otherwise inaccessible places (such as the portal to the next level). Darendor has argued that the game code handled this by having two "Mangar's Tower 4" levels -- one the normal version, and the other the changed version. Others think that there is only one "Mangar 4" and the game code applied the changes directly to the level itself.
My main reason for thinking there is only one level is because of the unusual way the 3 secret doors behave after the change. If you induce the change while using the spell MAFL, or a torch, or some other light that does not reveal secret doors, then the secret doors appear to be walls but still function perfectly well as secret doors. However, if you induce the change while a spell like GRRE was operating, the secret doors are unusable -- they're just walls. It seems weird for the square to teleport you to a level with a different arrangement depending on the current lighting conditions.
And here's a neat thing to try: induce the change while MAFL is in operation, then stand in front of a secret door (convince yourself that it works perfectly well as a secret door). Next, cast GRRE. Nothing visibly changes, but all of the sudden, the secret door is now an impassible wall. So the effect generated by the special square is something actively in operation at all times, which from a coding standpoint, makes the need for an extra level superfluous. CAVEAT! This is true of the PC version of the game. The Apple 2 version does nothing of the sort -- the special square replaces doors with walls, walls with doors, but secret doors are replaced with nothing (meaning no wall, no door, no secret door), regardless of the lighting conditions when you stand on the special square. I just rechecked these two versions 5 minutes ago. I do not remember if the Apple 2gs version did things like the PC or like the Apple 2. I want to say it was more like the PC, since this is how I've written it on my maps, which were almost all made while I was playing the 2gs version. I'm now curious about the C64 and Amiga versions.
My other reason for thinking so is that any special encounters you fought and traps you sprung are gone in the changed version. On the other hand, any traps you did not zap away, or any special monsters you didn't get rid of in Mangar's Crypt are still present after the change. I doubt they would have paid so much attention to detail as to keep track of these sorts of things on two separate levels.
I am very open to the possibility that the effect on Mangar 4 may have been coded differently on different versions.
Marco.
