Thank you for that information, Drifting. That pretty much answers the question about whether that strategy would work or not. So Mangar would max out at 21, and his Vampire Lords and Greater Demons would max out at 20. The Demon Lords, though... Looks like I'm going to have to have some levels anyway. Level 32 is higher than I wanted, but not as bad as 60.
That explanation brings up a couple more questions, though. First, how is the class bonus calculated? Is it random? Second, does singing a Bard song or casting an Anti Magic spell have any effect?
And what about repels on group damage spells? I notice that sometimes I get half damage reported. How does that work?
Does running from monsters use the same numbers?
msdos dissasembly
The class bonus is a table. Wizards are +3. Sorcerers, magicians and conjurers are +2. All others except for Paladins are +1. Paladins are +1 for levels 1-3, +2 for 4-9, +3 for 10-17, +4 for 18-25, +5 for 26-29 and +6 for 30+
Anti-Magic and the Lucklaran song seem to have almost no effect at all. The only place I can find that value being used are when calculating the save value for a summoned monster. It's used in BTII but not in BTI. Seems like a bug or at least an oversight...
For damage spells if the regular save check fails, if the attacker's save is greater than or equal to the (target's save - 4) then it does half damage. Otherwise it is repelled entirely.
There are three checks for successfully running:
1. The saving throw check is used with the first monster group as the attacker and the character in slot 1 as the target. So if the character's save is less than the monster's save then the party successfully runs.
2. If the low three bits of an 8-bit random number are all 0, then the party successfully runs.
3. If the party is in the city, it is not night time, and the low 2 bits of an 8-bit random number are 0 then the party successfully runs.
So a high level Paladin in the first slot pretty much guarantees that the party will run.
Anti-Magic and the Lucklaran song seem to have almost no effect at all. The only place I can find that value being used are when calculating the save value for a summoned monster. It's used in BTII but not in BTI. Seems like a bug or at least an oversight...
For damage spells if the regular save check fails, if the attacker's save is greater than or equal to the (target's save - 4) then it does half damage. Otherwise it is repelled entirely.
There are three checks for successfully running:
1. The saving throw check is used with the first monster group as the attacker and the character in slot 1 as the target. So if the character's save is less than the monster's save then the party successfully runs.
2. If the low three bits of an 8-bit random number are all 0, then the party successfully runs.
Code: Select all
if ((random(0,255) & 7) == 0)
partyRan = trueCode: Select all
if ((party.location == inCity) && (timeOfDay != night) && ((random(0,255) & 3) ==0))
partyRan = true.Thank you, Drifting, for looking up these little details. I don't know why this is so much fun for me, but I really like knowing exactly how these things work.
So messing around with some beginner parties and trying some new strategies, a lot of those numbers are confirmed. I can create a Magician or a Monk that starts out with 17 Luck and gives my party better chance of running from those pesky party-killing Barbarians. I can't make a Hobbit Paladin though, so that isn't useful for beginning parties. One of my Monks got an increase of Luck on level up, and when he got to level 4, I could run a very high percentage of the time in Skara Brae. Always, from Kobolds-Conjurers. But he still got caught by Skeletons, Spiders, and Barbarians. Once he got to level 6, he could pick and choose his battles, because he could run from anything. In the daytime, at least. That is a more powerful concept than I had realized. At that point, the party becomes basically invincible, and I could get experience and gold while taking zero damage if I wanted.
However, I saw two things that didn't mesh with what I had thought. First, what exactly is the damage on the Arc Fire spell? The manual says it's 1-3 times the caster's level. But then the manual says a lot of things that have proven to be utter garbage, and this doesn't match what I'm seeing. I have seen only 1 damage from a level 1 Conjurer several times. But then I have also seen up to 16 damage from a level 3 Conjurer. My guess at this point is that it's actually 1-4 times the (caster's level + 1), and the low 1 I saw was half damage from being partially resisted.
The other question is about the Wither Strike spell. Does this have different saving throws? Those Magicians that I can run from consistently now can still Wither me about half the time. I had expected that when I could save against them running from the fight, I would be able to save against the Wither Strike spell. It has to be using SOMETHING different.
So messing around with some beginner parties and trying some new strategies, a lot of those numbers are confirmed. I can create a Magician or a Monk that starts out with 17 Luck and gives my party better chance of running from those pesky party-killing Barbarians. I can't make a Hobbit Paladin though, so that isn't useful for beginning parties. One of my Monks got an increase of Luck on level up, and when he got to level 4, I could run a very high percentage of the time in Skara Brae. Always, from Kobolds-Conjurers. But he still got caught by Skeletons, Spiders, and Barbarians. Once he got to level 6, he could pick and choose his battles, because he could run from anything. In the daytime, at least. That is a more powerful concept than I had realized. At that point, the party becomes basically invincible, and I could get experience and gold while taking zero damage if I wanted.
However, I saw two things that didn't mesh with what I had thought. First, what exactly is the damage on the Arc Fire spell? The manual says it's 1-3 times the caster's level. But then the manual says a lot of things that have proven to be utter garbage, and this doesn't match what I'm seeing. I have seen only 1 damage from a level 1 Conjurer several times. But then I have also seen up to 16 damage from a level 3 Conjurer. My guess at this point is that it's actually 1-4 times the (caster's level + 1), and the low 1 I saw was half damage from being partially resisted.
The other question is about the Wither Strike spell. Does this have different saving throws? Those Magicians that I can run from consistently now can still Wither me about half the time. I had expected that when I could save against them running from the fight, I would be able to save against the Wither Strike spell. It has to be using SOMETHING different.
Good guess. Exactly right.Maven wrote:However, I saw two things that didn't mesh with what I had thought. First, what exactly is the damage on the Arc Fire spell? The manual says it's 1-3 times the caster's level. But then the manual says a lot of things that have proven to be utter garbage, and this doesn't match what I'm seeing. I have seen only 1 damage from a level 1 Conjurer several times. But then I have also seen up to 16 damage from a level 3 Conjurer. My guess at this point is that it's actually 1-4 times the (caster's level + 1), and the low 1 I saw was half damage from being partially resisted.
Running uses the character in slot 1. Wither Strike uses the target character's attributes for the saving throw. If the magician's are able to wither the character in slot 1 then I'll have to look into it a bit deeper...Maven wrote:The other question is about the Wither Strike spell. Does this have different saving throws? Those Magicians that I can run from consistently now can still Wither me about half the time. I had expected that when I could save against them running from the fight, I would be able to save against the Wither Strike spell. It has to be using SOMETHING different.
The lead character was the first one Withered. This particular party had Monks in the first 3 slots. The first two were level 6 and the third one was level 4. The first one had 18 Luck and the other two had 17 Luck. My calculations showed the first Monk should be immune, Monk 2 should fail the save about one in 8 tries, and Monk 3 about 1 in 4. Monk 1 was the first one Withered, and I continued defending and watching for about 20 messages of either "Monk 1 is Withered" or "Monk 1 resists the spell". There were about 10 withered messages and about 10 resist messages. They cast another spell as well, but nothing showed. I think it might be Air Armor or Vorpal Plating.
I think I'll bring these guys back in and get some more accurate statistics, but I'm pretty sure there is some difference.
I think I'll bring these guys back in and get some more accurate statistics, but I'm pretty sure there is some difference.
It turns out that a non-damage spell like Wither Strike or Death Touch has to get past both the regular save check and the half damage save check to be successfully repelled. So in order to repel Wither Strike entirely the monk's save value - 4 would have to be >= the monster's save value.
By my calculations your level 6 monk with an 18 in luck has a save value of 9. (level >> 1) + 1 (class bonus) + 3 (luck bonus) + 2.
The magician has a save range of 2-9. Index 21. Right shifted 3 bits is 2. Plus a random number between 0 and 7 is 2-9.
That's gives a save value of 5 (9 - 4) to repel entirely.
The "Run" saving throw check does not use the doHalfDamage flag so there is a 4 point sweet spot where you can run away 100% of the time and still get hit by a spell from the same monster type.
By my calculations your level 6 monk with an 18 in luck has a save value of 9. (level >> 1) + 1 (class bonus) + 3 (luck bonus) + 2.
The magician has a save range of 2-9. Index 21. Right shifted 3 bits is 2. Plus a random number between 0 and 7 is 2-9.
That's gives a save value of 5 (9 - 4) to repel entirely.
The "Run" saving throw check does not use the doHalfDamage flag so there is a 4 point sweet spot where you can run away 100% of the time and still get hit by a spell from the same monster type.
Thanks, Drifting, for finding that answer for me. It isn't what I would have guessed, but I can see that it's pretty accurate. Knowing that changes somewhat how I play the game early levels. Nighttime with a low level party is much more dangerous, but it doesn't take many successful battles to earn enough gold to pay for a death or two. Even ArcFire spells can be pretty effective once my conjurers get to level 3 or 4. They're kinda expensive in the daytime, but at night it's pretty much worth blasting anything I see.
OK, so how often do drops happen? I'm guessing that it's level dependent, since I seem to remember getting more and more drops as I get into the harder dungeons. In the later dungeons I sometimes get two drops in one battle, even. I used to think I might get better drops if the battles were tougher, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Fighting a few dozen battles in town looks like it gives me almost exactly 1 drop every three battles. I haven't done any tests for dungeons yet.
And, how often can we expect to have a battle? I know there are dungeon squares where there are set encounters the first time you step on that square (being reset next time you enter that level). And random encounters attached to squares as well. And it looks like in town I can expect an encounter about every fourth door I kick in. But how often will I run into wandering monsters, and how often will one offer to join my party? This seems to be somewhat tied to processor speed.
OK, so how often do drops happen? I'm guessing that it's level dependent, since I seem to remember getting more and more drops as I get into the harder dungeons. In the later dungeons I sometimes get two drops in one battle, even. I used to think I might get better drops if the battles were tougher, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Fighting a few dozen battles in town looks like it gives me almost exactly 1 drop every three battles. I haven't done any tests for dungeons yet.
And, how often can we expect to have a battle? I know there are dungeon squares where there are set encounters the first time you step on that square (being reset next time you enter that level). And random encounters attached to squares as well. And it looks like in town I can expect an encounter about every fourth door I kick in. But how often will I run into wandering monsters, and how often will one offer to join my party? This seems to be somewhat tied to processor speed.
The item drop rate is determined by the number of monsters that you beat. For each monster that you fight, there is a one in eight chance of getting a drop. In the lower level dungeons and city there is a cap of one item. The higher dungeons (difficulty level 4 and up) have a cap of two.Maven wrote:OK, so how often do drops happen? I'm guessing that it's level dependent, since I seem to remember getting more and more drops as I get into the harder dungeons. In the later dungeons I sometimes get two drops in one battle, even. I used to think I might get better drops if the battles were tougher, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Encounter rate varies depending on where you are:Maven wrote:And, how often can we expect to have a battle? I know there are dungeon squares where there are set encounters the first time you step on that square (being reset next time you enter that level). And random encounters attached to squares as well. And it looks like in town I can expect an encounter about every fourth door I kick in. But how often will I run into wandering monsters, and how often will one offer to join my party? This seems to be somewhat tied to processor speed.
- Entering a building is a 1 in 4 chance
- Random battles are 1 in 128 each cycle. I don't completely understand the timer subsystem so I don't know what that translates too. This is the same for dungeons and in the city.
- Wandering monster is 1 in 256 each cycle.